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Reddit
reddit.com › r/csmajors › can someone explain this “pip” deal with amazon, i keep seeing it
r/csMajors on Reddit: Can someone explain this “PIP” deal with Amazon, I keep seeing it
December 21, 2020 -

Just got my offer and seems like everyone is just shitting on Amazon, how bad is this PIP thing and any idea of what percent of new hires get PIP’d?

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I started as a new grad in July, this is what I've gathered. Every year Amazon stack ranks their employees of the same level against each other, TT = top tier, HV = High Value, and LE = Least Effective. This is done in a large meeting with all the managers at the org level (org is short for organization and an org is a set of teams that work in a similar domain, around 300 employees). There is a set percentage of employees that must go in each bucket, most importantly 10% every year MUST be labeled as LE. This bottom 10% is then put on "dev plan." This a precursor to PIP. With this plan, your manager will try to help you improve so you are no longer labeled as LE. From my understanding this plan is relatively realistic and completable. If you fail, you are put on PIP. PIP = "performance improvement plan." PIP is essentially just Amazon's way of firing you. Your manager will give you goals to reach during this PIP (which from my understanding are very difficult) and once you don't reach them, you get fired. Now the kicker is each org in Amazon has a URA (unregretted attrition) rate. This rate is a percentage of employees that get fired every year, this is done through the stack ranking process I mentioned earlier. Amazon's philosophy is that the "bar is always raising" meaning they trim the fat by removing who they think is the bottom tier employees to make room for new employees who "raise the bar." I've heard the URA rate being 5-6%. This means that 10% are put in LE every year and about half of those employees are fired. The cherry on top is that Amazon offers (at least for new grad) have their stock vesting schedule very backloaded. For example, my offer is $80k RSU's over 4 years, however the schedule is 5/15/40/40. Meaning I get 5% after completing my first year, 15% after completing my second, 40% after completing third, and the remaining 40% after completing the 4th year. The average tenure of Amazon SDE's is between 1-2 years, which is why they tend to backload the stock. Edit: See u/DarkFusionPresent 's reply below for more info from a more experience Amazon dev
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It's stuff like this why I didn't even bother applying to Amazon, and a major reason why I left FB. I don't want to worry about getting fired if I have a bad half/quarter/etc. I have down periods where my output is low, but I learn, and then when I come back, I am better than before, this is how I operate. I get much better every year, and i am not very young. Where I work now, I make more than people at the same level in FANG (on average), but I don't have to worry about stack ranking and arbitrary, mandatory attrition. It's bad culture and not conducive to long tenures. FANG biases towards new blood, they don't want you to be comfortable there. Fuck them, they deserve no loyalty at all.
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Teamrora
teamrora.com › post › amazon-performance-improvement-plan
Amazon's PIP - Lessons from 75+ clients
It is clear from the conversations ... on Amazon and that is combined with most employees working harder/taking things more seriously than they have the past few years. This does make for a more competitive environment and its important to set yourself up for success. Since your manager is the one who ultimately puts you on Focus or PIP, they are ...
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Managebetter
managebetter.com › blog › amazon-pip-what-is-it-what-to-do
Amazon PIP: What is It & What to Do — ManageBetter
August 12, 2024 - This is because the PIP addresses crucial circumstances of when the employee does not meet the job expectations or has behavior issues within the company · At Amazon, it’s about one to two months.
People also ask

If I fail the Performance Improvement Plan (PIP), will I automatically be fired?
While failing the PIP often leads to termination, there may still be options. Employees can appeal the decision through Amazon’s Peer Panel Review, although success rates are low. Seeking legal advice early in the process can help you strategize and explore alternatives.
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stellerlaw.com
stellerlaw.com › home › amazon pivot program
Amazon Pivot Program Lawyer – Representation for Employees Facing ...
How long do I have to decide whether to accept severance, join the PIP, or appeal through Peer Review?
Amazon typically provides a five-day window to decide, although they often will accept the “depart” choice after the deadline without negative consequences. Given the high stakes, it’s critical to consult with a lawyer immediately to weigh your options.
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stellerlaw.com
stellerlaw.com › home › amazon pivot program
Amazon Pivot Program Lawyer – Representation for Employees Facing ...
What is Amazon's Pivot Program?
Amazon's Pivot Program claims to be designed to address underperformance. Over time, it offers employees three options:  Voluntary Resignation with Severance: Employees can choose to resign and receive a severance package.  Performance Improvement Plan (PIP): Employees commit to meeting specific performance goals within a set timeframe. If the manager says they do not meet the goals the severance package is smaller.  Peer Panel Review: If the manager claims the PIP (called Pivot) is unsuccessful, employees can appeal their manager's assessment through a peer review process.
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stellerlaw.com
stellerlaw.com › home › amazon pivot program
Amazon Pivot Program Lawyer – Representation for Employees Facing ...
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Epspros
epspros.com › news-resources › news › 2024 › are-amazons-performance-improvement-plans-a-precursor-to-layoffs.html
Are Amazon's Performance Improvement Plans a Precursor to Layoffs?
Per Yahoo Finance, Amazon is known ... "unregretted attrition." Amazon encourages managers to begin the PIP process if the company is not on target to meet the 6% attrition rate....
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Blind
teamblind.com › software engineering › amazon - anyone has successful pip experience ?
Amazon - anyone has successful PIP experience ? | Software Engineering Career - Blind
January 22, 2025 - And even if you do pay $150 cash per session if Kaiser HMO lets you down, you still get a nice return from that 60% STDI. If you take any non-FMLA Medical Leave while on a Pivot, please let us know whether it pauses Pivot successfully.
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Teller & Associates
stellerlaw.com › home › amazon pivot program
Amazon Pivot Program Lawyer – Representation for Employees Facing Performance Measures
January 6, 2022 - While failing the PIP often leads to termination, there may still be options. Employees can appeal the decision through Amazon’s Peer Panel Review, although success rates are low.
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Marketing Scoop
marketingscoop.com › consumer › amazon-pip
Deep Dive: Amazon‘s Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) - Marketing Scoop
However, in practice, PIPs at Amazon rarely have a happy ending for the employee in question. According to insider reports, only around 5% of Amazonians placed on a PIP manage to successfully graduate and keep their job in the long run.
Find elsewhere
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Fortune
fortune.com › 2024 › 03 › 20 › amazon-layoffs-performance-review-tech-human-resources-andy-jassy
Amazon put thousands of employees on PIPs before layoffs | Fortune
March 20, 2024 - A PIP, like those issued by Amazon, in and of itself isn’t a sign of “quiet firing” or of an effort to force workers out. The Amazon documents don’t reveal how many employees successfully completed the PIP, nor how many of those on PIPs were among the people laid off in the job cuts ...
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Reddit
reddit.com › r/amazonemployees › potential pip
r/amazonemployees on Reddit: Potential PIP
May 10, 2025 -

Hi,

I joined AWS as an L4 SDE about 6 months ago and my manager explained to me that I have been slow with onboarding and not getting tasks done quickly enough. He then explained then over the next 6-8 weeks I will be put on some sort of a plan to make sure I am up to speed. This will involve weekly 1:1 meetings and that the outcomes will be difficult and a stretch but not impossible to achieve.

To me this sounds like a PIP and from what I’ve heard most people end up getting laid off after the end of the PIP period. Is this actually a PIP and is it true that most people get fired after the PIP?

Thanks

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Sounds like a Focus. It's technically a pre-PIP. By design, it's supposed to have a ~50% success rate, though a lot of it is dependent on whether your manager wants to give you a chance to succeed, or is just trying to get you out the door. You should have a pretty clear idea of which it is depending on how realistic the goals are. One question to ask yourself is - is his feedback rhat you have been slow in your onboarding & tasks true? If so, that's something to focus on. Be honest & vocally self critical, lying to yourself does you no good.
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The advice I give to every mentee I have at AWS: this isnt a place to be shy. You will not succeed being shy. We are all a bunch of nerds, the quickest way to succeed is to shed any bit of shyness in you. Have an embarrassing question? Ask it quickly and laugh about it. Find the best person on your team, stick to them, learn from them, show interest in what they are doing. Everyone at AWS enjoys sharing knowledge. If someone is too busy to help, they will tell you, don't take it personally, just ask someone else. Most folks at AWS (the successful ones at least) understand that success is built on failures. You are expected to make mistakes, make them fast and keep going. You do not have time to waste worrying about looking dumb or failing. One of the first questions I asked when I got to my team was "wait, what is a code block?" 😂 everyone had a laugh and we kept goin. Don't hold yourself back, theres always more questions to ask. Edit: spelling
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Yahoo! Finance
finance.yahoo.com › news › amazon-sharply-upped-performance-improvement-201337948.html
Amazon sharply upped ‘performance improvement plans’ for workers. Then came tens of thousands of layoffs
March 20, 2024 - A PIP, like those issued by Amazon, in and of itself isn’t a sign of “quiet firing” or of an effort to force workers out. The Amazon documents don’t reveal how many employees successfully completed the PIP, nor how many of those on PIPs were among the people laid off in the job cuts ...
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Reddit
reddit.com › r/amazonemployees › pip sde i, advice?
r/amazonemployees on Reddit: PIP SDE I, advice?
February 2, 2025 -

just got notified yesterday that ive been put on pip. i started amazon late 2023 as a new grad with a broken team that was brand new, 4 engineers in total (however 2 were m.i.a. and on leave, and the other was just way too busy) both my manager and skip manager quit within the first few months, reasons including my skip skip manager, which eventually became my new manager. since the team was new, there wasnt much built and strong lack of documentation. the new manager was pretty absent for a couple months, and all of a sudden started really investing time into the team. during this time i got assigned a project that was proposed to be small, but ended up taking me 6 months. i got put on pip because i missed the deadline (but with good reason), and lack of communication/updates (despite me becoming more communicative these past couple of weeks because he raised concern, manager even brought up not sending things when... i literally did). the pip expectations are quite hefty -- i do think i can do them, but at what cost? ive been working 9 am - 12 am almost everyday the past month, including weekends occasionally to finish my project (with no support from my team, despite requesting). ive experienced so much mental stress and pain, including health issues from the pressure recently. i admit i had a slow start, but i genuinely believe i did the best i could with the circumstances i was given.

i want to take the severance, but is it a good idea? especially with this job market? would i even be able to apply for sde 2 roles or do i just resort to sde 1. even if i do take pip, will i be considered for promotion ever?

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Reddit
reddit.com › r/cscareerquestions › iama software engineer on a pip -- performance improvement plan -- at amazon. ama.
r/cscareerquestions on Reddit: IamA Software Engineer on a PIP -- Performance Improvement Plan -- at Amazon. AMA.
November 6, 2013 -

The title pretty much says it all. I am feeling pretty down about it so I created this throwaway to talk about it. Is anyone curious about the PIP, working at Amazon, or anything else? I can also talk about my nascent job search but that's less interesting that the PIP.

EDIT: Here's a link that describes what a PIP is and how they are used at Amazon. Although the article has a good description of the PIP, I don't agree with its tone and conclusions... In my case, I don't dispute that I was underperforming and I thought the PIP was fair.

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I've been on a PIP once in the past. I survived it fine and am still working for the company now. It took me by complete surprise -- my manager was sort of terrible and didn't tell me I wasn't meeting what he wanted to see in my performance. It ended up being a pretty dramatic reveal (I'd rather not get into the whole story) and, suffice to say, I believe they were planning on letting me basically dig my own grave and fire me if it hadn't all come to light. But it did, and my team lead and I (not my manager) came up with a PIP that the management team seemed to be happy with. I executed it fine and stayed on. Shortly after, I switched managers, and a bit after that I switched roles (same team, but I moved from QA to Ops).

It didn't really seem to have an effect on my reputation (I'm not sure how many people every really knew what was going on, probably not many), but it did instill a wariness on me that I didn't really have before. I'm now pretty much constantly suspicious that management isn't telling me things I need to know, which isn't really fair to them since I have excellent management now. But, basically, my trust in them is gone. It's very unfortunate, but it's been hard to get over the sting of what happened.

I know people love to say how a PIP is a death knell of a job, but I just wanted to share my experience that it doesn't have to be, at least not in a team/company that transparently holds true to the PIP. At some companies, yeah, it's basically just a documented way to push you out.

Good luck with everything! I didn't have a question, just wanted to share.

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Thank you for posting . I didn't even know this was a "thing".

My question is do you think there is anything you could have done to avoid this? Like, put more time in, Not piss off the wrong people, etc.

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Quora
quora.com › At-Amazon-what-is-the-difference-between-a-Dev-plan-and-a-performance-improvement-plan-PIP
At Amazon, what is the difference between a Dev plan and a performance improvement plan (PIP)? - Quora
Answer (1 of 2): Development plan is a regular plan which you do with your manager, where you are focusing on your career progress. You focus on your strengths and weaknesses. Based on this plan you will get tasks which will utilize skills you are good at and also help you to improve skills you w...
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Hacker News
news.ycombinator.com › item
Amazon Pip Horror Story | Hacker News
November 16, 2021 - Generally, Amazon has two minds about performance management. In written documentation, it's all about whether your reports meet the role guidelines. The written documentation is solid. They share how to evaluate people objectively and how to minimize bias. Verbally, it's all about numbers ...
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Reddit
reddit.com › r/amazonemployees › pip and focus. is it normal?
r/amazonemployees on Reddit: PIP and Focus. Is it normal?
January 10, 2025 -

Accepted an L5 position in Finance and starting in a few weeks. I’ve been seeing a lot of posts about people getting pipd and in Focus (which seems to be a step pre-PIP) in this subreddit. Is it normal? Is there always someone on a team in PIP/Focus? Is it like 10% of the workforce? I work in big tech currently and at least in my company you really have to underperform… like try to suck and not show up to meetings to get PIPd

Getting cold feet with the RTO5 + PIP culture. Sounds like you need to thrive living in paranoia and stress to enjoy working there

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Blind
teamblind.com › post › psa-the-chance-of-getting-piped-focused-at-amazon-on-a-4-year-tenure-is-about-50-we-did-the-math-J3hRxtma
PSA: the chance of getting PIPed (Focus'ed) at Amazon on a 4-year tenure is about 50% (we did the math) | Tech Industry - Blind
It's somewhat widely known that Amazon has a firing quota. The quota is officially called URA quota, UnRegretted Attrition, and is officially at exactly 6% company-wide. However, that 6% is the official "success" rate target.
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Blind
teamblind.com › software engineering › amazon pip process
Amazon PIP process | Software Engineering Career - Blind
You have about 2 months left there, ... you fail. The officially published level of success at PIP is 50%. The actual rate is about 0%, unless you're lucky and your manager is an idiot....