Palestine

LOL. Ok, tell that to my parents, who's birth certificates AND U.S. Passports both say Palestine. Just because the land was gifted to one colonialist regime from another doesn't mean it did not exist. I'm a frickin' Palestinian, not an Israeli or a Brit. It's literally like saying India didn't exist, or Sri Lanka didn't exist, or Pakistan or Portugal or Australia didn't exist or several dozen other countries and peoples didn't exist that were part of the British Empire at the same time (all at the opposition and behest of the indigenous peoples of each respective land). If the Philistines "were already gone 2,000 years ago," then so were the Hebrews. More on reddit.com

It’s very hard to sum up. I’m going to try to make this neutral but feel free to correct anything in this post that you disagree with. So, as you probably know, the first human civilizations were in the Middle East and North Africa. Thousands of years ago there was an ethnic and religious group living in modern day Israel, who practiced Judaism as a religion. The main city in the region was Jerusalem, which has been around in some form or another for about 6000 years. Jerusalem has been invaded and conquered and reinvaded and reconquered literally dozens of times in the past 6000 years. The Romans had it around the supposed birth of Christ, and they eventually banned Jews from living there. The Muslims captured it (along with most of the Middle East, North Africa, and southern Europe) about 600 years later. Getting to more modern history, it was under the control of the Ottoman Empire from about the year 1500 onward. Small communities of European Jews were buying land in Israel and establishing cities, mostly because they wanted to get out of Europe. The Ottoman Empire was on the losing side of WW1, and their empire collapsed and their land was split up by France and England. So now it’s 1919 and England has taken control of a big chunk of land in the Middle East, which they split into two pieces. On the east side of the river Jordan they name a territory Transjordan - that territory would eventually become the Kingdom of Jordan. On the west side of the river they name it Palestine. They encourage Jews who want to immigrate to the Middle East to do so, but only to Palestine, not to Transjordan. Over the course of the 1920’s and 1930’s, more European Jews come to Israel, they start building farms and cities, and they start having conflicts with the Arabs who have lived there for centuries. Britain begins to think being in charge of this region was kind of a mistake. In the 1930’s Hitler takes power in Germany and starts passing laws (and eventually enacting a genocide) against Jews in Europe. When the war ends and the Holocaust ends, a lot more European Jews decide they’re going to Israel because they want a country where they’re in charge. One of the first acts of the newly created United Nations is to try to solve the mess that Britain made in Palestine. They propose a division of the country where Israel gets some land, Palestine gets some land, and Jerusalem is made an international city under UN supervision. The Jewish leaders accept the plan, the Arab leaders don’t. From the perspective of the Arab leaders, their people have been on this land for centuries and they’re not just going to give it up. So instead of accepting the deal, Palestine and a coalition of neighbouring Arab nations decide to attack the Jewish settlements. This is the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Which Israel wins. After the 1948 war, Israel declares itself an independent state, adopts a constitution, declares Jerusalem as its capital city. Any Arabs who are still in Israel can become citizens. Many Arab civilians fled their homes due to the war and become refugees in neighbouring countries like Syria and Jordan. There have been a few other wars between Israel and the other Arab states, but gradually the other Arab states make peace with Israel. Israel is much wealthier than its neighbours and has a much more advanced military. So now it’s 2023. Most of what was the British territory of Palestine is now the nation of Israel. They maintain military control over the entire territory, but there are two regions that are nominally “Palestine.” One is called the West Bank, and it’s the land between Jerusalem and the river Jordan. The other region is called Gaza, a small strip wedged between Egypt and the sea. Life in the Palestinian Territories is not good. Israel controls their borders. Israelis are also building new towns in the West Bank, and then building walls around them. Economic opportunities for Palestinians are pretty slim. About the only way the Palestinians can fight back is through guerrilla tactics and terrorism. Gaza is controlled by an Islamic group called Hamas, who believe that Israel should be wiped out and the whole territory should be returned to Palestinian control. This past weekend Hamas launched a major coordinated attack on Israeli, from Gaza. Israel is now attacking back. Generally Israeli can fight back a hell of a lot harder, which means for your average Palestinian civilian, things are just going to get worse and worse. There have been a number of attempts to have peace talks and resolve the issues. Palestine doesn’t want to accept what they view as crumbs. Israel doesn’t want to leave or give up their land. More on reddit.com

Reality is the Arabs in mandatory Palestine has no national or ethnic identity beyond Arabs. The Jews were united in their cause, ethnicity and culture which I believe is ultimately the reason they flourished. The Arab nations need to take agency for their futile attempt at attempting to destroy Israel and the right for Jews to also be on the land. The Palestinian problem exists due to the attack from the Arab nations. War created the refugee crisis, a war they started. The only thing that unites them is their Islamic ideology and hatred towards Jews More on reddit.com

There is no entirely good side because both "sides" as usually presented are patchwork quilts of factions. There are some reasonably good factions and some intolerably bad factions. Where I would like you to modify your view is by viewing this as simplistic flag-waving "sides" - that view is part of the reason this is so intractable. The real extremists among the settlers are pretty intolerable and are a major obstacle to peace. Hamas and some other militant groups that define themselves by a refusal of peace are intolerable precisely because its impossible to make peace with them - their whole reason for existing would cease if they were to consider peace. So rather than blatant flag-waving anyone who actually cared about peace should be carefully choosing who exactly to support and who exactly to oppose. There are factions who seek peace but the lack of strong internal and external support for them has made peace impossible. The simplistic taking of sides has itself been an obstacle to peace. Supporting Israel's right to exist should not mean turning a blind eye to the crimes of the extremists, it should mean supporting those within Israel who seek a just peace. Supporting the right of Palestinians to have a decent life should not mean indiscriminately supporting groups who claim to fight for them, it should mean supporting those who seek a just peace. We should view "Willing to try to live alongside the other people" as its own side in this long standing conflict and if we care for ordinary people this is the side we should support - there are such factions within both Israeli and Palestinian society. Those are the good guys. More on reddit.com