mark kelly video to troops - Brave Search

How is Mark Kelly's video wrong when the Sec. of Defense recently said he would not follow the rules of engagement?

reddit.com › r › Askpolitics › comments › 1p6zbg4 › how_is_mark_kellys_video_wrong_when_the_sec_of

Technical point (the best kind of point?): you're getting a bit mixed up as to the relationship between the Laws of Warfare (LoW) and Rules of Engagement (RoE) here OP. Laws of Warfare are international laws designed to prohibit atrocities when nations are engaged in wars. Rules of Engagement are entirely self created by the DoD/US and are a set of internal rules that set the standard on what troops are allowed to do. Key distinction: Laws of Land Warfare are international law. Rules of Engagement are limits we voluntarily place on ourselves. So when Hegseth said "we also don't fight with stupid rules of engagement" he means we're not going to limit ourselves in ways that don't make any sense. He didn't say or mean that we're going to start ignoring the Laws of Land Warfare. As an example: In the Vietnam war, significant limitations were placed on the ability to attack targets in Hanoi even though the LoW would state that these are perfectly legitimate targets. We established RoE against attacking them for political reasons. As a more contemporary example. RoE in Iraq could say "under no circumstance are you allowed to shoot at a target until you are first fired upon." Under that kind of RoE a military convoy in the middle of the desert, where no civilians live, could in theory see a road-block with armed people in defensive fighting positions set up ahead of them, and they would have to either stop and seek legal permission to violate the RoE or continue to drive towards that ambush until they were shot at. This is the kind of stupid rule of engagement that Hegseth is talking about. To repeat my earlier line: the meaning of his words was not that we're going to fight with zero RoE or ignore the LoW. His message was that we're not going to self-impose dumb rules on the troops. Answer from theRealHobbes2 on reddit.com

cbc.ca › news › world › mark-kelly-sues-penatgon-9.7042526

U.S. Sen. Mark Kelly sues the Pentagon over his censure, calling it 'unconstitutional' | CBC News

2 days ago - Democratic Sen. Mark Kelly sued the Pentagon on Monday over attempts to punish him over his participation in a video that called on U.S. troops to resist unlawful orders.

cnbc.com › 2026 › 01 › 05 › pentagon-mark-kelly-video-hegseth.html

Pentagon to cut Sen. Mark Kelly's military retirement pay over 'seditious' video: Hegseth

1 week ago - Sen. Mark Kelly and other members of Congress on the video reminded members of the U.S. military that they can refuse to follow illegal orders.

Videos

Mark Kelly has retirement pay cut by Pentagon over ‘illegal orders ...

Sen. Mark Kelly censured by Secretary of Defense over video - YouTube

News Wrap: Hegseth censures Sen. Kelly for video urging troops ...

'Enough of reckless misconduct!’: Hegseth moves to demote Sen.

Goodmorningamerica

Hegseth censures Sen. Mark Kelly over video about unlawful orders ...

FBI & Pentagon launch investigations into Dem video - YouTube

November 26, 2025

bbc.com › news › articles › cp8039wg1rdo

Pentagon moves to punish Democratic Senator Mark Kelly over 'seditious video'

1 week ago - "Senator Mark Kelly - and five other members of Congress - released a reckless and seditious video that was clearly intended to undermine good order and military discipline," Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth wrote on X.

nbcnews.com › politics › congress › mark-kelly-trump-hegseth-military-video-investigation-sedition-rcna246475

Sen. Mark Kelly says Trump and Hegseth are 'not serious people' amid military video investigation

The Defense Department said it would investigate the retired Navy captain after he participated in a video calling on troops to refuse illegal orders. ... Nov. 30, 2025, 10:28 AM EST / Updated Nov.

Published November 30, 2025

reddit.com › r/askpolitics › how is mark kelly's video wrong when the sec. of defense recently said he would not follow the rules of engagement?

r/Askpolitics on Reddit: How is Mark Kelly's video wrong when the Sec. of Defense recently said he would not follow the rules of engagement?

November 26, 2025 -

I am sure most people here are familiar with the unfolding controversy over Mark Kelly's recent video stating that soldiers can disobey illegal orders, with Hegseth having just ordered an investigation of the issue: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/nov/25/us-politics-pam-bondi-appeal-james-comey-letitia-james-cases-donald-trump-venezuela-latest-updates

What I want to understand is what reason anyone has why this kind of statement is wrong or unreasonable to make, when the Secretary of Defense, Hegseth himself, just recently stated his intent to not follow rules of engagement.

You can read his full speech here: https://www.war.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/4318689/secretary-of-war-pete-hegseth-addresses-general-and-flag-officers-at-quantico-v/

But I am referring to this excerpt:

>War is something you do sparingly on our own terms and with clear aims. We fight to win. We unleash overwhelming and punishing violence on the enemy.

We also don't fight with stupid rules of engagement. We untie the hands of our warfighters to intimidate, demoralize, hunt and kill the enemies of our country.

The US Marine Corps describes the Rules of Engagement as "those directives that delineate the circumstances and limitations under which United States (US) forces will initiate and/or continue combat engagement." It is a subset of the law of war. See here: https://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Portals/207/Docs/TBS/B130936%20Law%20of%20War%20and%20Rules%20Of%20Engagement.pdf

He does not say he's going to change the rules of engagement. He simply says they're not going to fight with them. So it seems this is an unambiguous announcement of intent to issue illegal orders. Why then would it be wrong, let alone illegal, for a representative to say that soldiers can and should disobey illegal orders?

Technical point (the best kind of point?): you're getting a bit mixed up as to the relationship between the Laws of Warfare (LoW) and Rules of Engagement (RoE) here OP. Laws of Warfare are international laws designed to prohibit atrocities when nations are engaged in wars. Rules of Engagement are entirely self created by the DoD/US and are a set of internal rules that set the standard on what troops are allowed to do. Key distinction: Laws of Land Warfare are international law. Rules of Engagement are limits we voluntarily place on ourselves. So when Hegseth said "we also don't fight with stupid rules of engagement" he means we're not going to limit ourselves in ways that don't make any sense. He didn't say or mean that we're going to start ignoring the Laws of Land Warfare. As an example: In the Vietnam war, significant limitations were placed on the ability to attack targets in Hanoi even though the LoW would state that these are perfectly legitimate targets. We established RoE against attacking them for political reasons. As a more contemporary example. RoE in Iraq could say "under no circumstance are you allowed to shoot at a target until you are first fired upon." Under that kind of RoE a military convoy in the middle of the desert, where no civilians live, could in theory see a road-block with armed people in defensive fighting positions set up ahead of them, and they would have to either stop and seek legal permission to violate the RoE or continue to drive towards that ambush until they were shot at. This is the kind of stupid rule of engagement that Hegseth is talking about. To repeat my earlier line: the meaning of his words was not that we're going to fight with zero RoE or ignore the LoW. His message was that we're not going to self-impose dumb rules on the troops.

Did he say they’re not going to fight with any rules of engagement or with stupid ones? If it’s “stupid ones”, then it would depend on which ones are considered stupid and whether those specific ones are legally binding in the US as to whether he’s giving an illegal order. The US has changed ROE numerous times. For instance, the US is legally bound by the 1949 Geneva Protocol and the 2005 Additional Protocol III. Both were signed and ratified. But the 1977 Protocols I and II were never ratified and therefore not legally binding (although we use some of their principles). International law is irrelevant if it hasn’t been ratified in some way to make it legally binding, so it really depends what specific rule is in question at the time. Soldiers do have a right to refuse orders they consider illegal. Of course, they can be punished for it and would have to successfully defend their actions in court or be held responsible for insubordination or other crimes.

usatoday.com › story › news › politics › arizona › 2026 › 01 › 12 › arizona-sen-mark-kelly-files-suit-against-pentagon-over-censure-video › 88145971007

Arizona Sen. Mark Kelly files suit against Pentagon over censure, video

2 days ago - “The despicable video urging … troops to ‘refuse illegal orders’ may seem harmless to civilians — but it carries a different weight inside the military,” he wrote. “This was a politically-motivated influence operation.” · He dubbed the group the “Seditious Six” and said their message “erodes cohesion.” · Hegseth may have undermined his own outrage when CNN published on Dec. 3, a 2016 video of Hegseth in which he sounded more like the Democrats he has criticized. Opinion: How Mark Kelly became Arizona's unlikely national media star

bbc.com › news › articles › cq8dqqddpe8o

Fallout from 'illegal orders' video escalates battle with Democrats over US patriotism

On Monday morning, Secretary of Defence Pete Hegseth confirmed that the Pentagon was investigating whether Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, one of the six, had violated military law by participating in the video. The retired Navy captain, combat pilot and astronaut could theoretically be recalled to active duty to face court martial or administrative measures.

Published November 26, 2025

pbs.org › newshour › politics › the-defense-department-is-investigating-kelly-over-the-illegal-orders-video-experts-doubt-they-can-actually-prosecute-him

WATCH: 'I am not going to be silenced.' Sen. Kelly denounces 'bullying' by Trump, Hegseth | PBS News

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Pentagon's investigation of Sen. Mark Kelly over a video that urges American troops to defy "illegal orders" has raised a slew of questions, and some criticism, from legal experts.

Published December 1, 2025

Find elsewhere

Google Bing Mojeek

The Globe and Mail

theglobeandmail.com › world › democratic sen. mark kelly sues pentagon over attempts to punish him for warning troops of unlawful orders

Democratic Sen. Mark Kelly sues Pentagon over attempts to punish him for warning troops of unlawful orders - The Globe and Mail

2 days ago - Kelly’s participation in a video in November with five other Democratic lawmakers – all veterans of the armed services and intelligence community – in which they called on troops to uphold the Constitution and not to follow the Trump administration’s military directives if they were unlawful.

The Independent

independent.co.uk › news › world › americas › us politics

Trump administration is investigating Democratic lawmakers over video message to military | The Independent

3 hours ago - “At this point in time, I’m still sort of wrestling with the fact that the president of the United States has asked for my execution for asking people to follow the law," Houlahan said. “So I’m still kind of in that processing stage in that I am enormously concerned at what this says.” · The Pentagon swiftly went after Sen. Mark Kelly of Arizona, a former Navy pilot who represents Arizona, for his participation in the video.

abcnews.go.com › Politics › hegseth-sen-mark-kelly-receive-administrative-punishment-video › story

Hegseth censures Sen. Mark Kelly over video about unlawful orders - ABC News

1 week ago - Hegseth censures Democratic Sen. Kelly for "seditious" conduct, referring to video Kelly participated in telling service members of their right to refuse unlawful orders.

c-span.org › event › news-conference › sen-mark-kelly-holds-news-conference-on-military-orders › 438544

Sen. Mark Kelly Holds News Conference on Military Orders | Video | C-SPAN.org

December 1, 2025 - Sen. Mark Kelly (D-AZ) holds a news conference on President Trump's military orders and a video message from Democrats like Sen. Kelly reminding troops to not follow illegal orders.

nbcnews.com › politics › congress › pentagon-seeking-reduce-sen-mark-kellys-retirement-rank-video-urging-t-rcna252363

Pentagon seeks to reduce Sen. Mark Kelly's retirement rank over video urging troops to refuse illegal orders

The Pentagon said in November that it was launching an investigation into Kelly because of the video he and other Democratic lawmakers recorded urging members of the military and the intelligence community not to follow illegal orders from the Trump administration.

Published 1 week ago

youtube.com › watch

Mark Kelly: My job is to raise concerns about military - YouTube

CNN video PO-76MO

Published 2 days ago

military.com › daily-news › 2025 › 11 › 25 › military-veterans-call-out-trump-hegseth-and-pentagon-new-video.html

Military Veterans Call Out Trump, Hegseth and Pentagon in New Video | Military.com

November 26, 2025 - Ten military veterans of different service and rank have made their own video in support of U.S. Sen. Mark Kelly and his congressional colleagues who are caught in a back-and-forth with the Pentagon after urging active-duty members to ignore illegal orders.

npr.org › 2026 › 01 › 06 › nx-s1-5667103 › hegseth-threatens-sen-mark-kellys-military-rank-over-illegal-orders-video

Hegseth threatens Sen. Mark Kelly's military rank over 'illegal orders' video : NPR

1 week ago - Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth says he's begun the process of reducing the retirement pay and rank of Democratic Sen. Mark Kelly over a video Kelly did telling troops not to follow illegal orders.

npr.org › 2026 › 01 › 05 › nx-s1-5667080 › mark-kelly-pete-hegseth-pentagon-military-rank-retirement

Sen. Mark Kelly fires back after Hegseth threatens his rank and retirement pay

1 week ago - Kelly held the event to address what he described as intimidating actions by President Trump and Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, following the release of a video in which Kelly and several lawmakers urge U.S. troops to refuse "illegal orders."

cbc.ca › news › world › pentagon-investigating-senator-defy-illegal-orders-9.6990412

Pentagon investigating Sen. Mark Kelly for video urging troops to defy ‘illegal orders’ | CBC News

November 25, 2025 - The Pentagon says that it is investigating Democratic Sen. Mark Kelly of Arizona for possible breaches of military law after Kelly joined a handful of other lawmakers in a video that called for U.S. troops to refuse unlawful orders.