Overall Season 4 Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

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Let me know if this is a popular opinion, but the writers must think this is the dumbest fan base in the world. They assassinated Joes character. They saw how everyone enjoyed the duality of his evilness, and decided to throw it out the window.

Not even for entertaining purposes, as the beginning of this season was boring, and the plot twist was something literally everyone saw coming. Season 5 better not come, I can’t believe the same writers made this. Season 3 was also amazing, so for this to be absolutely mind-numbing really hurts

Spoilers Ahead

I'm going to try to not have to many spoilers and keep it vague but WHAT THE FUCK.

4 Seasons of this show and this is what it builds up to? This season just feels like it was written in 2 days. Huge plot holes, unintresting caracthers and development.

The ending especially is really weak, oh turns out Joe was the murderer (Big suprise) and Kate is completely ok with him doing all this. So essentially Kate was ok with Joe killing her boyfriend and her dad. Like what? No actual human being would be fine with that.

Also I really didn't like how Marienne was fit into this season. She felt like a second thought and felt like a cameo from Season 3. Her ending wasn't the best either.

Like I get the whole Rhys isn't real thing but it was a really obvious and uncreative. Honestly this whole season had bad writing.

I really wanted Joe to die and finally put an end to his story. Now that he's basically completely fine and alive this season just seems pointless.

I hope they make Season 5 where Joe just dies.

I personally loved season 4, the mystery element I enjoyed, Joe was (in my opinion) at his smartest and most cunning, amazing character Kate was introduced and of course LADY PHOEBE!

I watched the first 3 seasons and I loved them but I started watching the first episode of season 4 and I got bored. I don't know if it was just because I wasn't in the mood, if the beginning was just slow, or if the season itself was actually bad but I just wanted to know other people's opinions before I started watching it again

I swear that was literally the best season. The plot changed a lot and it was for the better, for sure. It had the best scenes when it was revealed that Joe made up Rhys (the shouting scene, the Hi Joe, etc.). Even the Nadia scene was amazing. It was overall the best season.

Season 1 was the WORST and I hated Beck, she was simply annoying and mediocre and also gaslit Joe about her cheating. Not that cheating on a serial killer is a crime but she didn't know he was a killer when she cheated and gaslit him so she can't be cut slack like that.

Love was amazing (and pretty) in Season 2 and 3 and the acting was amazing as well.

Love had always wanted Joe to accept his true nature, be who he truly was, with her and as a family. So, what Joe has now, with Kate, is exactly the kind of life, the kind of relationship that Love had offered to joe.

But, because Love was much too similar to him, in the ways of murdering people, he robbed himself of a decent life way before he found Kate.

Love deserved more than him anyway. But still.

Edit: I'm not saying either of them are GOOD people, obviously they're not. They both belong in prison clearly. I'm just saying Love didn't start killing for sport until she met Joe. Yes, she killed the two before, but she killed Delilah for Joe. She's crazy clearly. Joe is goddamn psychotic. Joe's been killing for nothing pretty much since the start and once someone matched his wavelength, mostly FOR HIM, everything he's done up to that point was literally for NOTHING because he's instantly turned off and his instant reaction is to get rid of her.

So, yes, in my opinion, Love deserved better. But, that's not the point of the post.

It was just to point out that Love had offered Joe the life that Kate had given Joe. If Love hadn't revealed she was also a killer, Joe would still be with her.

Also in the books, Love isn't a murderer. So for all we know Love didn't murder anyone, cause we know now that Joe has been hallucinating probably since after Season one, since he killed Beck. Love probably did do something, but maybe it wasn't murder, her family was rich so they probably covered up a few things that he linked to her being a murderer. For all we know.

Of course it wasn't better than like season 1 for example, but it had a different vibe. When I saw how dead and lifeless Joe looked from Marienne's POV I got genuine chills. I was never scared of a character before, but he was extremely scary and disturbing. During the entire series, I never felt like Joe was unpredictable. There was always a plan behind everything. Even though he was bad, he was RELIABLE. And so I went into season 4 believing and having a sense of trust as the narrator. So when I saw the plot twist, it made me think and feel how much of a monster he is. Especially when he said "I'm not Joe" and looked at Marienne with that void-like expression, genuinely scary. And from that point on I was scared even when he acted nice. He was completely unreliable and became the true villain. I feel like if it was similar to season 1, like many people here wanted, we'd never see that. We'd never see how truly broken and evil Joe was. Some would even excuse his actions. I think that after seeing his pov and thoughts for the entire series, we subconsciously even justify his actions and feel disconnected from them. So when we see him KIDNAP Marienne and be obsessed with Rhys, there's no thoughts or justification behind them. It felt like I was watching a genuine serial killer show, something that the other seasons didn't feel like. It felt like "oh well sucks for them". Of course the little British clue murder mystery thing was mid. But the other half of the season was amazing. I hated Joe at the end. And everyone who used to like him will see him as the monster he is.

What even happens in it?

I think most will agree with this considering that season 5 received the lowest ratings and plus the show did not need a sequel. Sera Gamble was not the showrunner, she left the project after season 4, while mentioning in one of her interviews that season 4 should have been a logical conclusion to Joe's story.He won he accepted his dark side that he was always pushing away he is rich, powerful, Master of manipulation and very smart you cant argue with that.

Hey, just a fair warning I will be talking a lot about the new season ending and the reviews I have been trying to watch and keep up with on YouTube, Reddit, and etc.

PART 1: I personally thought how the show started with a Clue style mystery was a great spin on the series as a whole. (This part contains a ton of spoilers for the entirety of Season 4 Part 1, this is your final warning!) With Joe now not being the killer in the first part to the new season, I think this worked really well on making the viewer think we were getting something new out of the season. I really believe the Clue style of the first part works really well on giving a spin on "Johnathan Moore" and making him seem like he finally got away from his past life and its now being ruined by a third party. With the new love interest obviously being Kate, I believe this season could end in many interesting ways with Part 2 already being released as I am writing this Review/Analysis. At the end of Part 1 after all the murders and the relentless fighting back and forth between "Johnathan Moore" and Rhys Montrose, I believe the first part ended in a, in my opinion, good way with the mansion fire showing the rest of the circle "Johnathan Moore" is not the murderer everyone thought he was. In my opinion this was a good way to wrap up the first part of Season 4 and give every viewer watching a good hook to continue the series into Part 2. In my opinion this gave the series a break from the entire Joe Goldberg murdering spree of each season, which was getting a little repetitive, to be honest.

PART 2: Back to my original statement, the Clue style spin on the series was a great way to break the cycle of the entire Joe Goldberg murdering spree. (Again, the next part of this post is going to have tons of spoilers for the entirety of Season 4 Part 2, this again is a final warning!) In the beginning of Part 2 we go back to the entire, Rhys Montrose is manipulating and blackmailing "Jonhathan Moore" into killing for him, our "Johnathan" thought it was going to be over after pinning the Eat the Rich Killer on the Dawn with Simon's severed ear, (I believe that may be a joke about Vincent van Gogh cutting off his own ear, haha). Then in Episode 7, "Good Man, Cruel World", that "Johnathan Moore" is starting to show his roots again as Joe Goldberg by finding out that Joe has had an entirely fake portrait of Rhys Montrose in his head, taking the role of Joe's murderous side and showing that Joe Goldberg was the true killer all along. In my opinion the first two episodes of the first season are packed with a lot of info that seem to happen all at once with the murder of the real Rhys Montrose, Joe finding out Marianne is locked up in a cage, and that he is the true killer of Season 4. This all seems like too much at once and very clouded in my opinion.

Continuation of PART 2: Even though I thought all this information could have been explained in a better way, this fight with Joe's Murderous side portrayed as Rhys Montrose and Joe Goldberg is a good way to show that Joe has went out of his comfort zone and is trying to get rid of his past. I will be honest my opinion is very biased when it comes to shows, including YOU, I like how they don't just keep the entire Joe is a murderer who keeps on murdering theme, I like how they play a mental illness into the story to give more depth behind the mind of Joe Goldberg. When it comes to mental illnesses being portrayed in shows I have a deep connection to another Netflix original, Bojack Horseman, this show gives a good light on how you can use mental illnesses like the one Dawn and Joe Goldberg share to give a character more depth. This all makes the show more interesting in my opinion and makes Joe Goldberg more of a character than a shell of a murderer.

FINALE, EPISODE 10: (spoilers ahead for the final episode of Season 4, be warned) In conclusion, I enjoyed the last episode with only a handful of personal changes I would have made to the finale as a whole. When "Jonathan Moore" and Rhys Montrose have the fight on the bridge and have the entire "I love You" scene, "I don't this this scene could have been better", is what I want to say. I believe the scene was decent up to the point where "Johnathan Moore" jumps into the water below him with after throwing his fictional Rhys Montrose into the water right before. I believe when they hugged right after Rhys says "I love You" is when "Johnathan" should have pulled both of them at once into the water from the bridge, of course forgetting the actual physical constraints of that actually being possible, I think then when seeing "Johnathan" in the water regretting jumping, I believe it would have played better with some dialogue about him giving up his past murderous ways and watching the fictional murderous Rhys Montrose fade away into the water beside "Johnathan" as the dialogue about regret plays out would have ended that side better than how they actually played it off. This would also have changed the end of the season for better making what ends up being Joe Goldberg after his murderous past was erased by his new, and hopefully final love, Kate Galvin, a no longer blood lust Joe Goldberg. Ending the entire series there would have given the show a good end instead of what happened with Joe Goldberg at the end of the series, not leaving us on a hook, but Netflix gave the series a end where if they decide to pick it up for a season 5 or end it, there is no hook to leave us hanging.

Finally, I would give this new season a 6/10 compared to the other seasons of the show, it was good but could have been better according to how much time was taken to complete Season 4.

Thank you for reading my Review/Analysis of Season 4 of YOU, the latest season to one of my favorite shows Netflix has ever produced.

Also, If you have any questions on my thought process, go ahead and ask away!

I’m currently watching the whole show to refresh my memory before the new season, and I’ve managed to watch the first 3 seasons in only a few days but for some reason season 4 is taking me so long to watch. I keep losing interest. There’s wayyyy too much of Joe’s dialogue (to the point where his voice is even beginning to annoy me LOL!!) and all the characters are insufferable it’s driving me mad. I’m literally British and somehow this show has made me start to hate my accent

Really need a S4 recap no time to re-watch before the new season drops ,the only thing I remember is Joe coming back to new york. Thanks in advance!

Was I even watching the same show? Why do people like this season? Genuinely curious.

Season 1 and 2 were literal perfection which I've watched so many times. 3 was meh but it had its good moments with Love but 4 has to be one of the worst pieces of television I have ever seen.

Firstly the side characters...You has never been a show which offers up super in-depth side characters but the first few seasons always gave them some sort of personality and character arcs. Paco, Peach, Forty, Ellie, Cary, Sherry were all good characters which had some sort of meaning and place. I cannot think of a single one in 4 which wasn't completely void of any dimension. They weren't intriguing or even funny, they were just there, wasting screen time and felt like a slasher movie's character quota.

Secondly, the acting. Penn Badgley really has to carry so hard this season. Aside from Marianne, every other acting performance is forgettable and to be honest, at times cringe-worthy. The screenplay doesn't help. I was all for a change in setting after the first seasons but they failed England so hard. It was basically an American vision of what English culture was like and just threw in as many British stereotypes as they could. Also, the whole "rich people bad, capitalism bad" social commentary has got a bit stale now.

The plot twists felt so forced, underwhelming and the ending in particular was laughable, all done so they can milk out another season. How does Joe Goldberg go from being a serial killer on the run for years, with several characters still out there suspectful of him, now go to being some sort of celebrity starring in articles and interviews? Is "powerful family covered it all up" really the best they could come up with again? Maybe all these loose ends will be covered in season 5 but letting it end like that just seemed to spit on the first 3 seasons.

Perhaps I wasn't paying enough attention (forgive me season 4 was testing) but since when and why does Joe start losing his mind and hallucinating? Never at any point in the show prior do we see him being schizophrenic, yet as soon as the writers need a plot twist, all of a sudden he has a random English writer living in his head telling him to kill people...with 0 plot development into this state? He was always portrayed as being fully conscious and in control when he killed, be it accidental or for the "right reasons" but not this season apparently. Fine, show him growing more and more insane, but develop it through the writing. Its just lazy "and then" type screenplay.

Honestly, you can tell this series is no longer based on a book. I just really hope Season 5 can salvage something and go back to clean, smart writing. What surprised me though, was seeing how positive the reviews were for this season. Did I just miss something major?

Rant over. See you soon neighbour.

Now that I've rewatched all 4 seasons and listened to the audiobooks, I can articulate exactly how this season spoiled You: it fundamentally broke the story's winning formula.

You's drama comes from the audience seeing what narrator Joe Goldberg doesn't: we see the disconnect between what other characters say/do and how Joe misinterprets these things. We feel the humor and dread when the conflict between reality and Joe's delusion results in chaos and tragedy... time and time again.

To pull off its dramatic reveal, season 4 had to switch to a psychological detective story, alienating the audience. We're no longer in on the joke, and many of us felt cheated by the narrative choices the show made to keep us in the dark.

(To be fair, this isn't totally unique to season 4; season 2 did mislead the audience when we're at first led to believe that Joe organically met Love - only to later find out he'd actually stalked her. This at the time was a cheap but relatively small storytelling choice, and using it to frame the entire 4th season was a bridge too far.)

Some Redditors argue that season 4's shift is good because it keeps the show from getting stale, but the writers seem to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Surely, there must be a way to expand the plot without sacrificing You's essential drama: the audience is caught between reality and Joe's delusion. Season 4 has traded this root conflict for cliches.

I understand that the writers want to transition Joe from the disturbing protagonist to the outright villain as they prepare to eventually end his story; fracturing his mind is probably the most expedient way to accomplish this shift, but that doesn't make it the best way.

Ultimately, I feel like You broke its defining storytelling device by alienating the audience, and I don't know what to even hope for in future seasons. Season 4 was a wild ride, but I wouldn't call it a fun one.

What is fun is the ongoing discussion this community is having, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!

1. i love Kate. i have no idea why some people call her annoying. she is not supposed to be sweet, she is supposed to be passive aggressive and with trust issues but with empathetic heart underneath her cold bitch demeanor and the actress nailed the role. also, i think Joe's dynamic with her is the most refreshing and different. i would even say she might be the only one Joe fell for as she is rather than as she is in his head. and maybe the only one who fell for him as he is, rather than as he curates himself to attract a specific person. chemistry was indeed chemistrying as well.

2. i think Rhys is indeed the real person, but he is just the public figure whose memoir inspired Joe's subconscious to create an alter ego. we never see Rhys interact with anyone, and the one time when Joe talks to Rhys in front of others (during the dinner party) causes others' surprise/confusion. each time Rhys supposedly killed someone, Joe was passed out. honestly, this would be the only case where i'm interested in Rhys.

3. i hope Joe won't get away in the end this time. i think that blonde paparazzi woman might be onto something. maybe she is the one to expose him. i thought that she was a crazy fangirl stalking him but now we know she isn't, unless Joe's mind is a complete mess and he incorporated his stalker into his eat the rich alter ego.

4. i actually really enjoyed the first part. it was a lot of fun, BUT i hope for more insanity and creepiness in part 2.

5. i'm glad i watched the season before going online. this way i was able to really decide for myself if i like the season or not, which again, i did.

I just watched episode 8 and what is going on? I’ve never been able to get started on season 4. After season 3 the show seemed so repetitive, but OMG what even is season 4?! I don’t know if I like it or hate it. But this episode was a real mind-fuq.