2019 fantasy drama television series
Why do so many people dislike The Witcher Season 2?
The Witcher season 2: a review
chronology - Timeline of The Witcher tv series - Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange
Post-Season Discussion: The Witcher - Season 2 (SHOW ONLY)
Videos
ALL SPOILERS TAGGED!
Why do so many people dislike The Witcher Season 2? I’ve played the games and read the books, and overall, I really enjoyed it. I’d give it a solid 8/10 for everything (pushing close to a 9). The Eskel plot I will admit was weird for me, I loved him in the books. I did enjoy though how they incorporated The Deathless Mother into the show and made her interconnect with the plots of Geralt, Ciri, Yennefer, Nilfgaard, the Elves, and use that to explain the magical history behind the world (Conjunction of the Spheres), the magic system, and use it to introduce The Wild Hunt as well. I also like how she was based on the legend of Baba Yaga in Slavic Mythology.
The monsters and the fight scenes were also amazing. You can tell the cinematography, costumes, graphics etc have massively improved since the first season (the dragon from season 1 looked awful). I also loved the performances by Henry Cavill as Geralt, Anya as Yennefer, Joey as Jaskier, Graham as Djikstra (and performances from the actors of Vesemir, Coen, Lambert, Nivellin, Rience and Fringilla) and Freya Allen shined bright as Ciri this season (I enjoyed her story the least in season 1 and now she gets put into the spotlight to shine). I even enjoyed Yennefer’s story overall. It got a bit dark at times, but overall, I thought it was gripping in her character development from a power hungry (at times demented) witch to a more reflective and understanding mother figure (which will be shown in more force in the next season). It’s also better than her basically not being in it since she’s barely in the third book. I thought the introduction of the political scheming was good. The reveal in the last scene was great and absolutely necessary for the second season and not right at the end of the story (I can’t wait for more reveals in upcoming seasons). I enjoyed so many other things too.
Overall, I really enjoyed this season and thought it was way better than season 1 (I really disliked episode 5 and 6 in the first season and didn’t think the last scene was as impactful as in the books). I also got done watching the final episode of The Wheel of Time adaptation and I absolutely hated it with a passion! I thought it ruined the essence of the books and it left me bored and in a fit of rage. So, the second season of The Witcher show was a great relief and enjoyment (along with the new DUNE movie).
Is it just me who feels this way? If not, what were other elements you enjoyed about it? If there were certain things that you disliked, what are they and why (be respectful)? Btw I don’t have a problem with people who disliked it. You are allowed to like or dislike whatever you want, I just find it weird how many people on this subreddit appear to dislike it and I’m just not seeing it or feeling it. Last words: I understand that the books, games and show are ultimately different from one another. I so far though enjoy each of them for what they are.
I just binged the entire second season of the Witcher yesterday, having waited until after Christmas when I could sit down and enjoy it. I plan to watch it again, but these are my impressions after a first watch. Also bear in mind my sole experience with the material is limited to the series and the Witcher 3 game, so I have no commentary on how they changed anything from the books.
In overview, I was amazed by season 2 and felt the show seriously upped the bar. The complexity I saw was reminiscent of Game of Thrones in its early (read: better) seasons, and it made me hungry for a lot more. This season was worth the wait. I hope we don't have to wait nearly as long for season 3.
It's easiest to organize this review in terms of how season 2 differed from season 1. Season 1 was of course very episodic in nature, with three interspersed timelines meeting up as the series neared the end, rather than a single timeline. Its narrative and cast were much smaller, whereas season 2 felt like it encompassed the entire Continent (and more besides) and had serious meat to its story. Obviously this is all in part due to season 1 being based more on the short stories.
Whereas season 1 demanded some attention from the viewer with its timelines, season 2 was more demanding in terms of the story itself. On the balance I think the new season was more complex, but in my opinion this was all for the better; it made the world feel more real. I didn't find the expanded scope of the story and its vastly expanded cast of characters at all overwhelming.
A couple of words should be spared for my joy in the returning characters. Triss Merigold was treated as a solid part of the story this time around instead of an afterthought, and I was glad her hair was actually red now. A few surprises like Yarpin were warmly welcome, and provided great levity as the story grew heavier. And it was so good to see Dara again, taking on a more significant role in things to come and hinting at some future tough decisions to be made.
The fluidity of characters' alliances was something I found thoroughly enjoyable, even if a casual viewer might get lost thinking: "Wait, wasn't she on his side two episodes ago?" Many of the new characters were ciphers, and for some returning ones like Cahir and Fringilla we saw more of their motivations and how they perceived Nilfgaard, all in stark opposition to season 1 where Nilfgaard was a nebulous, dark evil. (Nilfgaard is still brutal and messed up, though. Just because Fringilla sees them as liberators doesn't mean she's right.) Dijkstra was a delight on the screen, so I greatly hope we see more of him in season 3. And the psychopathic Rience left plenty of questions—foremost, why he would choose to stay involved instead of walking away once he was out of prison. For everyone else there was a lot of who's-screwing-whom, figuratively and otherwise, and I loved that for the most part we didn't get those answers yet.
And the answers we did get were satisfying. No, it still isn't clear why Vilgefortz bashed another mage's head in at the end of season 1, but there does appear to be a deeper agenda and it's still only a tease. The reveals about Ciri were gradual and told us a lot, yet held quite a lot in reserve. And one of the biggest of all, why Nilfgaard was after her in the first place, was saved for the very end. (Even then it's clear there must be more to it than that.) Stregobor's reluctance to install Yennefer in Aedirn in season 1 makes way more sense now in the context that he's had a very, very bad history with elven-blood mages and he can't escape his fear; yes he's a racist, but above all else Stregobor is clearly a wounded man ruled by the scars of his past and a fear of history repeating.
One of the things I really enjoyed was that the main plot arc was tied to something I took for a throwaway event in season 1. The writers used the opportunity that provided to delve deeper into the history of the world and unfold more of it. The Wild Hunt was teased more, treated as more than just a throwaway line or two as they were in season 1 and setting them up as a greater-context threat for seasons to come. Although the history of men and elves was a major arc to the season, the Conjunction of the Spheres that began it all was explored more as well, so the multiverse of the setting feels more real than it did before.
Thematically season 2 was absolutely dripping with meaning. Destiny was the iron-fisted ruler of season 1; but in season 2, there are hints that there may be another side to that coin, and finding it may be crucial for Ciri's future. It isn't at all clear yet if she has a choice in where this is going; but if she does, she's going to have to work for it. The merciless persecution of the elves, and their reactionary distrust of all humans as a result, is felt throughout the new season. That dovetailed beautifully with a theme that in a world of questionable choices, it's all the more important to do the right thing whenever possible. Geralt knows a truth Stregobor does not: "We do not kill out of fear."
The last episode of the season ties a lot of the arcs together in a neat package, leaving so many threads to pull at but no sense at all that the writers simply forgot about so-and-so. There are a lot of characters to keep track of, and they don't feel ignored. Things are moving, not only on the Continent but across worlds, and the story has a long way to go from here. Indeed there are hints at new or growing threats that were only at the fringes in the first two seasons. At last we see the wider world I came to love from the game: sprawling and full of overlapping designs.
So those are my two cents. Well done to the writers for managing so many characters and agendas at once, and I'm looking forward to seeing where the series goes from here.
In an interview with one of the showrunners, Lauren Schmidt Hissrich, she says:
Is this crazy? Like, is it crazy to do that with this story? Is it crazy to say that Ciri's (Freya Allan) story takes place over two weeks, Yennefer's takes place over, you know, it's like 70 years. Geralt's (Henry Cavill) takes place over 20 years. Is that crazy?
If she was, say 20, when she went to Aretuza, she would be 90 towards the end of the show. Perhaps not 3 lifetimes, but certainly 2.
As I watched, the details I caught that led to realizing the [timelines] were:
- During the mage's council discussing where to send the new mages, they refer to Calanthe (Ciri's grandmother) as a young, promising princess [Yennefer]
- [Geralt] is fighting the shtriga for King Foltest, but we cut to [Yennefer] who walks past a child Foltest who is pestering his sister.
- [Geralt] attends Ciri's mother's betrothal/wedding where we find out she is pregnant.
- Once [Geralt] and [Yennefer] meet, when next we see them together during the dragon hunt there are flashbacks of several meetings that occurred in the meantime.
- Finally, [Yennefer] is talked into helping the mages defend Cintra, before anything in [Ciri's] time.
Those are just the ones that I caught and I wasn't trying to pay too much attention once I realized the timeline differences. This Screen Rant page includes many other smaller details that I missed. It also includes this timeline from dates in the novels:
1170 - The Great Cleansing of Elves
1173 - Yennefer is born
1190 - Yennefer attends Aretuza
1230 - Yennefer becomes mage of Aedirn (approx.)
1232 - Calanthe named queen
1233 - Calanthe wins The Battle of Hochebuz
1234 - Geralt meets Renfri
1235 - The Usurper overthrows Nilfgaard
1237 - Princess Pavetta is born
1252 - Princess Pavetta is married
1253 - Ciri is born
1257 - The Usurper is killed
1260 - Yennefer and Geralt meet (approx.)
1263 - Nilfgaard invades Cintra
Specifically for the Netflix television show the entire timeline of major event is listed here.
- Conjunction of the Spheres: Unknown but prior to 500
- Birth of Stregobor: 786
- Laws of Magic created: 839
- The Opening of Aretuza: 839
- The Creation of the First Witcher: 967
- Birth of Geralt: 1160
- Beginning of the Great Cleansing (Elf Genocide): 1187
- Birth of Yennefer: 1192
- Yennefer Attends Aretuza: 1206
- Yennefer is Transformed: 1210
- The Royal Ceremony (Mage Party): 1210
- The Curse of the Black Sun: 1213
- Birth of Renfri: 1213
- Birth of Calanthe: 1216
- Birth of Jaskier: 1222
- A Striga is Born: 1229
- Calanthe Ascends to the Throne: 1230
- Battle of Hochebuz: 1231
- The Butcher of Blaviken: 1231
- Calanthe Marries Roegner: 1232
- Urcheon Saves Roegner: 1233
- Birth of Pavetta: 1234
- The Striga Attacks: 1237
- Nilfgaard Attacks Ebbing (start of war): 1239
- Geralt and Jaskier First Meet: 1240
- Yennefer Escaping the Ronin Mage: 1240
- Geralt Defeats the Striga: 1243
- Geralt Claims the Law of Surprise: 1249
- Cintra's Double Wedding (Pavetta/Urcheon & Calanthe/Rist): 1249
- Birth of Ciri: 1250
- Yennefer and Geralt Meet (facing the djinn): 1256
- The Dragon Hunt: 1262
- Geralt Return to Cintra (to claim his Law of Surprise): 1263
- The Battle of Marnadal (Cintra v. Nilfgaard): 1263
- Yennefer returns to Aretuza: 1263
- The Slaughter of Cintra (by Nilfgaard): 1263
- Ciri in the Refugee Camp: 1263
- Ciri in Brokilon Forest: 1263
- Ciri's Prophecy: 1263
- Geralt is attacked by Ghouls: 1263
- The Battle of Sodden Hill: 1263
- Destines Meet (Geralt and Ciri): 1263
Deductions from Above:
- Geralt is 103 years old
- Yennefer is 71 years old (not exactly 3 "lifetimes")
- Renfri was 18 when she was killed by a 53 year old Geralt
- Calanthe is 47 at the time of her death
- Jaskier is 41 years old (18 when he met an 80 year old Geralt)
- Ciri is 13 years old.
- Geralt is 96 and Yennefer is 64 when they first meet