Overall Season 4 Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

WARNING: In this thread, you can discuss the entirety of the fourth season with the inclusion of spoilers. If you are not finished with the fourth season, the advisable course of action would be to not view or scroll any further down unless intended otherwise.

DISCLAIMER: Please read and keep the following in mind before posting on r/YouOnLifetime

When making new posts in the subreddit, DO NOT include spoilers in the title of your post. Also, mark all posts containing spoilers for season 4 as SPOILER before you post. Also, FLAIR your post with the appropriate flair, whenever you can.

As noted above, any and all spoilers from subsequent episodes in Episode Discussion Threads are not allowed. For eg: if you are commenting on the discussion thread of the 3rd episode, DO NOT include any events or incidents from say, the 4th episode in your comment.

SPOILER TAGS

Please use spoiler tags, wisely in case you are discussing any content that contains spoilers. You can use the native spoiler tag like this:

">"!Joe cannot change his nature no matter where he goes!"<" but without the quotation marks.

It'll appear like this Joe cannot change his nature no matter where he goes.

IF YOU CONTINUE TO VIOLATE ANY POLICY INCLUDING THE ONE FOR SPOILERS, YOU WILL BE BANNED. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Link to Season 4 Episode Discussion Hub

DISCORD for YOU

Please feel free to join the Discord server dedicated to the television series YOU, to discuss theories and thoughts in depth for past, current and upcoming seasons. Everyone is very nice and the show is growing, so please help us build a nice community. The permanent invite link is below for your consideration.

https://discord.gg/vcwp4Kb

Let me know if this is a popular opinion, but the writers must think this is the dumbest fan base in the world. They assassinated Joes character. They saw how everyone enjoyed the duality of his evilness, and decided to throw it out the window.

Not even for entertaining purposes, as the beginning of this season was boring, and the plot twist was something literally everyone saw coming. Season 5 better not come, I can’t believe the same writers made this. Season 3 was also amazing, so for this to be absolutely mind-numbing really hurts

I watched the first 3 seasons and I loved them but I started watching the first episode of season 4 and I got bored. I don't know if it was just because I wasn't in the mood, if the beginning was just slow, or if the season itself was actually bad but I just wanted to know other people's opinions before I started watching it again

Hey, just a fair warning I will be talking a lot about the new season ending and the reviews I have been trying to watch and keep up with on YouTube, Reddit, and etc.

PART 1: I personally thought how the show started with a Clue style mystery was a great spin on the series as a whole. (This part contains a ton of spoilers for the entirety of Season 4 Part 1, this is your final warning!) With Joe now not being the killer in the first part to the new season, I think this worked really well on making the viewer think we were getting something new out of the season. I really believe the Clue style of the first part works really well on giving a spin on "Johnathan Moore" and making him seem like he finally got away from his past life and its now being ruined by a third party. With the new love interest obviously being Kate, I believe this season could end in many interesting ways with Part 2 already being released as I am writing this Review/Analysis. At the end of Part 1 after all the murders and the relentless fighting back and forth between "Johnathan Moore" and Rhys Montrose, I believe the first part ended in a, in my opinion, good way with the mansion fire showing the rest of the circle "Johnathan Moore" is not the murderer everyone thought he was. In my opinion this was a good way to wrap up the first part of Season 4 and give every viewer watching a good hook to continue the series into Part 2. In my opinion this gave the series a break from the entire Joe Goldberg murdering spree of each season, which was getting a little repetitive, to be honest.

PART 2: Back to my original statement, the Clue style spin on the series was a great way to break the cycle of the entire Joe Goldberg murdering spree. (Again, the next part of this post is going to have tons of spoilers for the entirety of Season 4 Part 2, this again is a final warning!) In the beginning of Part 2 we go back to the entire, Rhys Montrose is manipulating and blackmailing "Jonhathan Moore" into killing for him, our "Johnathan" thought it was going to be over after pinning the Eat the Rich Killer on the Dawn with Simon's severed ear, (I believe that may be a joke about Vincent van Gogh cutting off his own ear, haha). Then in Episode 7, "Good Man, Cruel World", that "Johnathan Moore" is starting to show his roots again as Joe Goldberg by finding out that Joe has had an entirely fake portrait of Rhys Montrose in his head, taking the role of Joe's murderous side and showing that Joe Goldberg was the true killer all along. In my opinion the first two episodes of the first season are packed with a lot of info that seem to happen all at once with the murder of the real Rhys Montrose, Joe finding out Marianne is locked up in a cage, and that he is the true killer of Season 4. This all seems like too much at once and very clouded in my opinion.

Continuation of PART 2: Even though I thought all this information could have been explained in a better way, this fight with Joe's Murderous side portrayed as Rhys Montrose and Joe Goldberg is a good way to show that Joe has went out of his comfort zone and is trying to get rid of his past. I will be honest my opinion is very biased when it comes to shows, including YOU, I like how they don't just keep the entire Joe is a murderer who keeps on murdering theme, I like how they play a mental illness into the story to give more depth behind the mind of Joe Goldberg. When it comes to mental illnesses being portrayed in shows I have a deep connection to another Netflix original, Bojack Horseman, this show gives a good light on how you can use mental illnesses like the one Dawn and Joe Goldberg share to give a character more depth. This all makes the show more interesting in my opinion and makes Joe Goldberg more of a character than a shell of a murderer.

FINALE, EPISODE 10: (spoilers ahead for the final episode of Season 4, be warned) In conclusion, I enjoyed the last episode with only a handful of personal changes I would have made to the finale as a whole. When "Jonathan Moore" and Rhys Montrose have the fight on the bridge and have the entire "I love You" scene, "I don't this this scene could have been better", is what I want to say. I believe the scene was decent up to the point where "Johnathan Moore" jumps into the water below him with after throwing his fictional Rhys Montrose into the water right before. I believe when they hugged right after Rhys says "I love You" is when "Johnathan" should have pulled both of them at once into the water from the bridge, of course forgetting the actual physical constraints of that actually being possible, I think then when seeing "Johnathan" in the water regretting jumping, I believe it would have played better with some dialogue about him giving up his past murderous ways and watching the fictional murderous Rhys Montrose fade away into the water beside "Johnathan" as the dialogue about regret plays out would have ended that side better than how they actually played it off. This would also have changed the end of the season for better making what ends up being Joe Goldberg after his murderous past was erased by his new, and hopefully final love, Kate Galvin, a no longer blood lust Joe Goldberg. Ending the entire series there would have given the show a good end instead of what happened with Joe Goldberg at the end of the series, not leaving us on a hook, but Netflix gave the series a end where if they decide to pick it up for a season 5 or end it, there is no hook to leave us hanging.

Finally, I would give this new season a 6/10 compared to the other seasons of the show, it was good but could have been better according to how much time was taken to complete Season 4.

Thank you for reading my Review/Analysis of Season 4 of YOU, the latest season to one of my favorite shows Netflix has ever produced.

Also, If you have any questions on my thought process, go ahead and ask away!

So many characters making dumb decisions that rely solely on plot convenience.

Marienne and Nadia's plan was to fake Marienne's death while hoping that a serial killer who burnt up his ex-wife won't do anything to her body. What?

Joe usually cuts up and/or buries bodies. He's a master at taking care of bodies. But guess what? He left her body on a bench so she'll be found as a junkie? What? He could have chopped her up or buried her or used chemicals to dissolve her body or something. That was a dumb plan that only needs plot convenience to work and the hope that he leaves her body intact..

Very dumb plan coming from so-called smart characters. There was no valid reason for not calling the police on Joe. Is Joe superhuman? What would he do if he was arrested?

Apparently, even if by luck the plan worked, the killer who tracked her across the globe won't suspect for a second that she's alive?

This season had too many writing issues, forced plot twists etc...it's almost as if the writers wanted to add as many elements as possible in the show and drag it on further... I guess the numbers are good so Netflix won't let it end even when this season would have been a perfect time to end the show

My biggest issue is characters acting irrational. Yes most of the cast are junkies...it still doesn't cover up the random behavior of these characters. These characters feel like they're just there to occupy screentime.

Even the police...wtf... It's crazy how they don't suspect Joe despite him being the most suspicious. Someone was murdered in a resort with a killer on the loose almost burning 2 others alive, yet the police did nothing? They didn't even question or investigate the people there. Police didn't even ask questions about how TF they took care of the body. At least someone should have given statement about how Joe took the body downstairs or something. The police didn't even question them? What?

What about Joe? He has multiple personality disorder but how TF did he set the bunker he was in on fire with no way to escape. In fact if Kate hadn't come to save them, he'd be dead. There was no way he could have predicted she would even find where he was. Terrible writing there.

I cannot forgive the character assassination of Joe. The explanation for why Joe murdered those people was beyond terrible. So Joe killed someone because she made a drunk and high remark around a table that "people started dying the moment he appeared?" What? No one even took her seriously.

Joe throughout the past seasons has never been someone to kill so thoughtlessly. That's the reason he's survived for so long. He's smart.

What was his other motives for the other murders? Someone he barely knew was taking advantage of his former staff and getting all the credit? What?

It's almost as if the writers don't even understand Joe's character. Character assassination right there.

Kate's father, Tim, he knew his daughter was dating someone who he suspected had previously killed his wife and yet he allowed him? And even blackmailed him to kill Rhys? What? For someone that powerful, it makes no sense that he couldn't pay someone with no trace to him to do the job. It had to be someone he thought was an amateur? Why would he even leave the daughter he was so protective of with Joe?

Don't let me get started on the mess that Phoebe was.

I heard the previous seasons were adapted from novels...but I won't be surprised if this season was not...it was probably just a season to milk the shows popularity.

What even happens in it?

I thought season 4 was really great and I’m noticing that not everyone feels that way. I thought it was the best season since season 1 and maybe that’s more than most people think of it.

Why did you love or hate season 4?

1. i love Kate. i have no idea why some people call her annoying. she is not supposed to be sweet, she is supposed to be passive aggressive and with trust issues but with empathetic heart underneath her cold bitch demeanor and the actress nailed the role. also, i think Joe's dynamic with her is the most refreshing and different. i would even say she might be the only one Joe fell for as she is rather than as she is in his head. and maybe the only one who fell for him as he is, rather than as he curates himself to attract a specific person. chemistry was indeed chemistrying as well.

2. i think Rhys is indeed the real person, but he is just the public figure whose memoir inspired Joe's subconscious to create an alter ego. we never see Rhys interact with anyone, and the one time when Joe talks to Rhys in front of others (during the dinner party) causes others' surprise/confusion. each time Rhys supposedly killed someone, Joe was passed out. honestly, this would be the only case where i'm interested in Rhys.

3. i hope Joe won't get away in the end this time. i think that blonde paparazzi woman might be onto something. maybe she is the one to expose him. i thought that she was a crazy fangirl stalking him but now we know she isn't, unless Joe's mind is a complete mess and he incorporated his stalker into his eat the rich alter ego.

4. i actually really enjoyed the first part. it was a lot of fun, BUT i hope for more insanity and creepiness in part 2.

5. i'm glad i watched the season before going online. this way i was able to really decide for myself if i like the season or not, which again, i did.

Love had always wanted Joe to accept his true nature, be who he truly was, with her and as a family. So, what Joe has now, with Kate, is exactly the kind of life, the kind of relationship that Love had offered to joe.

But, because Love was much too similar to him, in the ways of murdering people, he robbed himself of a decent life way before he found Kate.

Love deserved more than him anyway. But still.

Edit: I'm not saying either of them are GOOD people, obviously they're not. They both belong in prison clearly. I'm just saying Love didn't start killing for sport until she met Joe. Yes, she killed the two before, but she killed Delilah for Joe. She's crazy clearly. Joe is goddamn psychotic. Joe's been killing for nothing pretty much since the start and once someone matched his wavelength, mostly FOR HIM, everything he's done up to that point was literally for NOTHING because he's instantly turned off and his instant reaction is to get rid of her.

So, yes, in my opinion, Love deserved better. But, that's not the point of the post.

It was just to point out that Love had offered Joe the life that Kate had given Joe. If Love hadn't revealed she was also a killer, Joe would still be with her.

Also in the books, Love isn't a murderer. So for all we know Love didn't murder anyone, cause we know now that Joe has been hallucinating probably since after Season one, since he killed Beck. Love probably did do something, but maybe it wasn't murder, her family was rich so they probably covered up a few things that he linked to her being a murderer. For all we know.

Hi all,

I just begrudgingly finished season 3.

I felt like the show started out really strong but then the entire plot kept repeating itself. Like all of season 3 was soooo predictable.

It seems like Joe has also never had any personality. All we know about him is he enjoys books, has childhood trauma, is charming, and is also a sociopath. Every love interest has had a solid backstory with their own passions and hobbies and character development.. but Joe never got any of that. He really seems like a totally plain guy that never shares anything about himself but women apparently still swoon over him for some reason.

Does ANY of this change in season 4? Or is it the exact same story with ‘new love interest that inevitably dies at the end?’ I would love more than anything for Joe to just get killed off at the end of season 5 when it comes out, but as the main character I highly doubt that will happen.

I have loved all of the seasons of the show but something about 4 I so bad,the season is just so boring,I don’t see how part 2 can get any better

I’m currently watching the whole show to refresh my memory before the new season, and I’ve managed to watch the first 3 seasons in only a few days but for some reason season 4 is taking me so long to watch. I keep losing interest. There’s wayyyy too much of Joe’s dialogue (to the point where his voice is even beginning to annoy me LOL!!) and all the characters are insufferable it’s driving me mad. I’m literally British and somehow this show has made me start to hate my accent

I'm going to get a lot of people mad so just understand that this is completely my opinion. You season 4 is genuinely awful and a huge step back from season 3. The writing, acting (aside from Penn Bagley), plot, dialogue, etc. is by far the worst its ever been in this show. Do the writers even care anymore? Why are we supposed to enjoy this season with extremely boring and annoying characters? Joe isn't even recognizable anymore. Do we really need another "rich people bad" cliché for the thousandth time? The best thing about the first 3 seasons was Joe's relationships with other people and the slow collapse of it all...which is no where to be seen here. A shame but I hope things get turned around in the future.

Was I even watching the same show? Why do people like this season? Genuinely curious.

Season 1 and 2 were literal perfection which I've watched so many times. 3 was meh but it had its good moments with Love but 4 has to be one of the worst pieces of television I have ever seen.

Firstly the side characters...You has never been a show which offers up super in-depth side characters but the first few seasons always gave them some sort of personality and character arcs. Paco, Peach, Forty, Ellie, Cary, Sherry were all good characters which had some sort of meaning and place. I cannot think of a single one in 4 which wasn't completely void of any dimension. They weren't intriguing or even funny, they were just there, wasting screen time and felt like a slasher movie's character quota.

Secondly, the acting. Penn Badgley really has to carry so hard this season. Aside from Marianne, every other acting performance is forgettable and to be honest, at times cringe-worthy. The screenplay doesn't help. I was all for a change in setting after the first seasons but they failed England so hard. It was basically an American vision of what English culture was like and just threw in as many British stereotypes as they could. Also, the whole "rich people bad, capitalism bad" social commentary has got a bit stale now.

The plot twists felt so forced, underwhelming and the ending in particular was laughable, all done so they can milk out another season. How does Joe Goldberg go from being a serial killer on the run for years, with several characters still out there suspectful of him, now go to being some sort of celebrity starring in articles and interviews? Is "powerful family covered it all up" really the best they could come up with again? Maybe all these loose ends will be covered in season 5 but letting it end like that just seemed to spit on the first 3 seasons.

Perhaps I wasn't paying enough attention (forgive me season 4 was testing) but since when and why does Joe start losing his mind and hallucinating? Never at any point in the show prior do we see him being schizophrenic, yet as soon as the writers need a plot twist, all of a sudden he has a random English writer living in his head telling him to kill people...with 0 plot development into this state? He was always portrayed as being fully conscious and in control when he killed, be it accidental or for the "right reasons" but not this season apparently. Fine, show him growing more and more insane, but develop it through the writing. Its just lazy "and then" type screenplay.

Honestly, you can tell this series is no longer based on a book. I just really hope Season 5 can salvage something and go back to clean, smart writing. What surprised me though, was seeing how positive the reviews were for this season. Did I just miss something major?

Rant over. See you soon neighbour.

Spoilers Ahead

I'm going to try to not have to many spoilers and keep it vague but WHAT THE FUCK.

4 Seasons of this show and this is what it builds up to? This season just feels like it was written in 2 days. Huge plot holes, unintresting caracthers and development.

The ending especially is really weak, oh turns out Joe was the murderer (Big suprise) and Kate is completely ok with him doing all this. So essentially Kate was ok with Joe killing her boyfriend and her dad. Like what? No actual human being would be fine with that.

Also I really didn't like how Marienne was fit into this season. She felt like a second thought and felt like a cameo from Season 3. Her ending wasn't the best either.

Like I get the whole Rhys isn't real thing but it was a really obvious and uncreative. Honestly this whole season had bad writing.

I really wanted Joe to die and finally put an end to his story. Now that he's basically completely fine and alive this season just seems pointless.

I hope they make Season 5 where Joe just dies.

I personally loved season 4, the mystery element I enjoyed, Joe was (in my opinion) at his smartest and most cunning, amazing character Kate was introduced and of course LADY PHOEBE!

Now don't worry this Is non-spoiler and for those that haven't watched Part 2 yet, It's completely and utterly fine.

However moving onto my thoughts about Part 2, It really delivered on almost everything I wanted from this Part. It cleared up everything that was left ambiguous about Part 1, It filled In all the holes for the murder mystery/whodunit, and really capitalized on the hunter being hunted storyline In a different way than what I originally thought, but It still works for the tone and core message of this show In everyway for me.

The delivery on the biggest twist this season later Into this part truly hit Incredibly hard for me (and admittedly to the theorist that predicted this, props to ya'll) and It was done In an aspect that's still true to the vital aspect of Joes character, and how he's constantly running from himself and truly can't face who he really Is, but...with a different ending or should I say twist to the ending.

Joe for the first time, actually admits to not only being the problem but also not being able to live with himself If he continues down this path, now he's not a changed man, but he's truly reverted his psychotic urges a different field rather fixating on women. Because he realizes he's not capable of real "love" and Isn't a hero as he's admitted In past seasons, and this chase that he keeps running won't continue forever.

But that doesn't mean the story Is over, Joe will leave on and so will his sick urges. But Jonathan Moore and Joes past sins along with him, will die. You'll come to understand that as you watch Part 2, and get to the ending.

And I gotta tell ya, Ed Speleers as Rhys Montrose Is still the most entertaining aspect of this entire show aside from Penn as Joe, truly enough his ability to nail the psychotic mannerisms and deeply twisted but brilliant side of this character, while still being emotionally vulnerable and touching truly got me sad and emotional myself, and In more ways than one obviously.

Every other side character was also fine, Kate, Phoebe, Adam, some returning past characters, etc. But truly enough what will get fans watching the most Is the constant back and forth between the unraveling of Joe as Jonathan and Ed as Rhys, and seeing how both of them unwind truly will make ya'll feel so good as to how this season ends, you may say It'll just end the same right?

Well yes, but no. And you guys are going to surprised to see the ending, and how that tie-in to what I said. And believe me It make take a few minutes to process for some viewers, but I'm starting to like the Joe we're going to get leading Into Season 5.

In conclusion truly enough this Part 2 delivered on all cylinders for me as my fav show to binge watch and one my favorite psychological thrillers that nails the mystery, the murder, the dark possessive Ideals of love, the near accuracy of how men like Joe can exist IRL, etc.

It's everything that makes this show brilliant.

It's everything about this show that makes It entertaining.

It's everything that makes us all obsessed with It.

It's everything that makes us love....

YOU