Overall Season 4 Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

WARNING: In this thread, you can discuss the entirety of the fourth season with the inclusion of spoilers. If you are not finished with the fourth season, the advisable course of action would be to not view or scroll any further down unless intended otherwise.

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Link to Season 4 Episode Discussion Hub

DISCORD for YOU

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Hey, just a fair warning I will be talking a lot about the new season ending and the reviews I have been trying to watch and keep up with on YouTube, Reddit, and etc.

PART 1: I personally thought how the show started with a Clue style mystery was a great spin on the series as a whole. (This part contains a ton of spoilers for the entirety of Season 4 Part 1, this is your final warning!) With Joe now not being the killer in the first part to the new season, I think this worked really well on making the viewer think we were getting something new out of the season. I really believe the Clue style of the first part works really well on giving a spin on "Johnathan Moore" and making him seem like he finally got away from his past life and its now being ruined by a third party. With the new love interest obviously being Kate, I believe this season could end in many interesting ways with Part 2 already being released as I am writing this Review/Analysis. At the end of Part 1 after all the murders and the relentless fighting back and forth between "Johnathan Moore" and Rhys Montrose, I believe the first part ended in a, in my opinion, good way with the mansion fire showing the rest of the circle "Johnathan Moore" is not the murderer everyone thought he was. In my opinion this was a good way to wrap up the first part of Season 4 and give every viewer watching a good hook to continue the series into Part 2. In my opinion this gave the series a break from the entire Joe Goldberg murdering spree of each season, which was getting a little repetitive, to be honest.

PART 2: Back to my original statement, the Clue style spin on the series was a great way to break the cycle of the entire Joe Goldberg murdering spree. (Again, the next part of this post is going to have tons of spoilers for the entirety of Season 4 Part 2, this again is a final warning!) In the beginning of Part 2 we go back to the entire, Rhys Montrose is manipulating and blackmailing "Jonhathan Moore" into killing for him, our "Johnathan" thought it was going to be over after pinning the Eat the Rich Killer on the Dawn with Simon's severed ear, (I believe that may be a joke about Vincent van Gogh cutting off his own ear, haha). Then in Episode 7, "Good Man, Cruel World", that "Johnathan Moore" is starting to show his roots again as Joe Goldberg by finding out that Joe has had an entirely fake portrait of Rhys Montrose in his head, taking the role of Joe's murderous side and showing that Joe Goldberg was the true killer all along. In my opinion the first two episodes of the first season are packed with a lot of info that seem to happen all at once with the murder of the real Rhys Montrose, Joe finding out Marianne is locked up in a cage, and that he is the true killer of Season 4. This all seems like too much at once and very clouded in my opinion.

Continuation of PART 2: Even though I thought all this information could have been explained in a better way, this fight with Joe's Murderous side portrayed as Rhys Montrose and Joe Goldberg is a good way to show that Joe has went out of his comfort zone and is trying to get rid of his past. I will be honest my opinion is very biased when it comes to shows, including YOU, I like how they don't just keep the entire Joe is a murderer who keeps on murdering theme, I like how they play a mental illness into the story to give more depth behind the mind of Joe Goldberg. When it comes to mental illnesses being portrayed in shows I have a deep connection to another Netflix original, Bojack Horseman, this show gives a good light on how you can use mental illnesses like the one Dawn and Joe Goldberg share to give a character more depth. This all makes the show more interesting in my opinion and makes Joe Goldberg more of a character than a shell of a murderer.

FINALE, EPISODE 10: (spoilers ahead for the final episode of Season 4, be warned) In conclusion, I enjoyed the last episode with only a handful of personal changes I would have made to the finale as a whole. When "Jonathan Moore" and Rhys Montrose have the fight on the bridge and have the entire "I love You" scene, "I don't this this scene could have been better", is what I want to say. I believe the scene was decent up to the point where "Johnathan Moore" jumps into the water below him with after throwing his fictional Rhys Montrose into the water right before. I believe when they hugged right after Rhys says "I love You" is when "Johnathan" should have pulled both of them at once into the water from the bridge, of course forgetting the actual physical constraints of that actually being possible, I think then when seeing "Johnathan" in the water regretting jumping, I believe it would have played better with some dialogue about him giving up his past murderous ways and watching the fictional murderous Rhys Montrose fade away into the water beside "Johnathan" as the dialogue about regret plays out would have ended that side better than how they actually played it off. This would also have changed the end of the season for better making what ends up being Joe Goldberg after his murderous past was erased by his new, and hopefully final love, Kate Galvin, a no longer blood lust Joe Goldberg. Ending the entire series there would have given the show a good end instead of what happened with Joe Goldberg at the end of the series, not leaving us on a hook, but Netflix gave the series a end where if they decide to pick it up for a season 5 or end it, there is no hook to leave us hanging.

Finally, I would give this new season a 6/10 compared to the other seasons of the show, it was good but could have been better according to how much time was taken to complete Season 4.

Thank you for reading my Review/Analysis of Season 4 of YOU, the latest season to one of my favorite shows Netflix has ever produced.

Also, If you have any questions on my thought process, go ahead and ask away!

Let me know if this is a popular opinion, but the writers must think this is the dumbest fan base in the world. They assassinated Joes character. They saw how everyone enjoyed the duality of his evilness, and decided to throw it out the window.

Not even for entertaining purposes, as the beginning of this season was boring, and the plot twist was something literally everyone saw coming. Season 5 better not come, I can’t believe the same writers made this. Season 3 was also amazing, so for this to be absolutely mind-numbing really hurts

Love had always wanted Joe to accept his true nature, be who he truly was, with her and as a family. So, what Joe has now, with Kate, is exactly the kind of life, the kind of relationship that Love had offered to joe.

But, because Love was much too similar to him, in the ways of murdering people, he robbed himself of a decent life way before he found Kate.

Love deserved more than him anyway. But still.

Edit: I'm not saying either of them are GOOD people, obviously they're not. They both belong in prison clearly. I'm just saying Love didn't start killing for sport until she met Joe. Yes, she killed the two before, but she killed Delilah for Joe. She's crazy clearly. Joe is goddamn psychotic. Joe's been killing for nothing pretty much since the start and once someone matched his wavelength, mostly FOR HIM, everything he's done up to that point was literally for NOTHING because he's instantly turned off and his instant reaction is to get rid of her.

So, yes, in my opinion, Love deserved better. But, that's not the point of the post.

It was just to point out that Love had offered Joe the life that Kate had given Joe. If Love hadn't revealed she was also a killer, Joe would still be with her.

Also in the books, Love isn't a murderer. So for all we know Love didn't murder anyone, cause we know now that Joe has been hallucinating probably since after Season one, since he killed Beck. Love probably did do something, but maybe it wasn't murder, her family was rich so they probably covered up a few things that he linked to her being a murderer. For all we know.

So many characters making dumb decisions that rely solely on plot convenience.

Marienne and Nadia's plan was to fake Marienne's death while hoping that a serial killer who burnt up his ex-wife won't do anything to her body. What?

Joe usually cuts up and/or buries bodies. He's a master at taking care of bodies. But guess what? He left her body on a bench so she'll be found as a junkie? What? He could have chopped her up or buried her or used chemicals to dissolve her body or something. That was a dumb plan that only needs plot convenience to work and the hope that he leaves her body intact..

Very dumb plan coming from so-called smart characters. There was no valid reason for not calling the police on Joe. Is Joe superhuman? What would he do if he was arrested?

Apparently, even if by luck the plan worked, the killer who tracked her across the globe won't suspect for a second that she's alive?

This season had too many writing issues, forced plot twists etc...it's almost as if the writers wanted to add as many elements as possible in the show and drag it on further... I guess the numbers are good so Netflix won't let it end even when this season would have been a perfect time to end the show

My biggest issue is characters acting irrational. Yes most of the cast are junkies...it still doesn't cover up the random behavior of these characters. These characters feel like they're just there to occupy screentime.

Even the police...wtf... It's crazy how they don't suspect Joe despite him being the most suspicious. Someone was murdered in a resort with a killer on the loose almost burning 2 others alive, yet the police did nothing? They didn't even question or investigate the people there. Police didn't even ask questions about how TF they took care of the body. At least someone should have given statement about how Joe took the body downstairs or something. The police didn't even question them? What?

What about Joe? He has multiple personality disorder but how TF did he set the bunker he was in on fire with no way to escape. In fact if Kate hadn't come to save them, he'd be dead. There was no way he could have predicted she would even find where he was. Terrible writing there.

I cannot forgive the character assassination of Joe. The explanation for why Joe murdered those people was beyond terrible. So Joe killed someone because she made a drunk and high remark around a table that "people started dying the moment he appeared?" What? No one even took her seriously.

Joe throughout the past seasons has never been someone to kill so thoughtlessly. That's the reason he's survived for so long. He's smart.

What was his other motives for the other murders? Someone he barely knew was taking advantage of his former staff and getting all the credit? What?

It's almost as if the writers don't even understand Joe's character. Character assassination right there.

Kate's father, Tim, he knew his daughter was dating someone who he suspected had previously killed his wife and yet he allowed him? And even blackmailed him to kill Rhys? What? For someone that powerful, it makes no sense that he couldn't pay someone with no trace to him to do the job. It had to be someone he thought was an amateur? Why would he even leave the daughter he was so protective of with Joe?

Don't let me get started on the mess that Phoebe was.

I heard the previous seasons were adapted from novels...but I won't be surprised if this season was not...it was probably just a season to milk the shows popularity.

Spoilers Ahead

I'm going to try to not have to many spoilers and keep it vague but WHAT THE FUCK.

4 Seasons of this show and this is what it builds up to? This season just feels like it was written in 2 days. Huge plot holes, unintresting caracthers and development.

The ending especially is really weak, oh turns out Joe was the murderer (Big suprise) and Kate is completely ok with him doing all this. So essentially Kate was ok with Joe killing her boyfriend and her dad. Like what? No actual human being would be fine with that.

Also I really didn't like how Marienne was fit into this season. She felt like a second thought and felt like a cameo from Season 3. Her ending wasn't the best either.

Like I get the whole Rhys isn't real thing but it was a really obvious and uncreative. Honestly this whole season had bad writing.

I really wanted Joe to die and finally put an end to his story. Now that he's basically completely fine and alive this season just seems pointless.

I hope they make Season 5 where Joe just dies.

1. i love Kate. i have no idea why some people call her annoying. she is not supposed to be sweet, she is supposed to be passive aggressive and with trust issues but with empathetic heart underneath her cold bitch demeanor and the actress nailed the role. also, i think Joe's dynamic with her is the most refreshing and different. i would even say she might be the only one Joe fell for as she is rather than as she is in his head. and maybe the only one who fell for him as he is, rather than as he curates himself to attract a specific person. chemistry was indeed chemistrying as well.

2. i think Rhys is indeed the real person, but he is just the public figure whose memoir inspired Joe's subconscious to create an alter ego. we never see Rhys interact with anyone, and the one time when Joe talks to Rhys in front of others (during the dinner party) causes others' surprise/confusion. each time Rhys supposedly killed someone, Joe was passed out. honestly, this would be the only case where i'm interested in Rhys.

3. i hope Joe won't get away in the end this time. i think that blonde paparazzi woman might be onto something. maybe she is the one to expose him. i thought that she was a crazy fangirl stalking him but now we know she isn't, unless Joe's mind is a complete mess and he incorporated his stalker into his eat the rich alter ego.

4. i actually really enjoyed the first part. it was a lot of fun, BUT i hope for more insanity and creepiness in part 2.

5. i'm glad i watched the season before going online. this way i was able to really decide for myself if i like the season or not, which again, i did.

I've poured over discussions on this sub as well all across the internet after finishing season 3 trying to fill a void that show had created for me in the course of a week. I was experiencing grief for the loss of Love and I imagine many of you are experiencing the same thing like it or not. That's the magic of excellent storytelling.

The point to this: I've seen many others say that Joe deserves death or jail and I agreed but I had a bit of an epiphany.

I think next season shouldn't focus on him finding love but experiencing complicated grief (just like us) for the realization that he has destroyed everything good in his life. They should bring back previous characters to represent his fragmented psyche- ghosts of his past trying to help him understand that he is the problem.

Bates motel had a similar conclusion spoiler where Norman had to come to the acceptance that he is truly alone and this can't be fixed.

I think if Joe grew to enjoy the company of his mental projections of Love, come to face to face that he isn't a good person and then is left alone and broken; that would be the perfect punishment for him.

Then they play exile again for the conclusion. You gonna have tears.

The show is interesting because it knows Joe is a murderer and a terrible person, but because the show is from his perspective and you get to hear his inner thoughts, it kinda tricks you into rationalizing his decisions, when you deep down know he is a bad guy and deserves to be imprisoned.

But in the second part we got to see almost an entire episode from another character’s perspective, and that’s when we see the real Joe. The flashback scene with Joe and Marianne was terrifying when you got to see it from her perspective. Because Joe is an unreliable narrator we don’t get to see much of this version of Joe. The one everyone who truly knows him sees. We have seen this from Beck and Candice perspective before.

It is kinda interesting how different the two parts of this season played out. The first one is a whodunnit mystery with Joe as the hero. It was basically Joe’s redemption season. But then in second part we find out Joe is actually even more damaged than before. So far gone that he actually has another personality, created to do Joe’s dirty work.

And does anyone else think Netflix totally fucked over the show this season? The quality of season 4 was heavily reliant on the twist that happened in the second half. And because of the long wait between the two parts of this season, most fans had already speculated and figured out all the major twists. Like only a couple of days after the first part was released, I saw people theorizing that Rhys was Joe and Marianne was in Joe’s cage.

So the first 3 seasons I’ve enjoyed the show. ESP season 2 and 3 with the whole love and Joe drama. Season 1 was meh couldn’t really care for Beck. But I have tried already 10 times to get through 2 episodes of this new season 4 and I just think it’s utterly terrible. I don’t plan on continuing watching the show. Maybe I’m biased against Brits? Idk but I watch for 10 minutes and turn it off. Anyway, for all those who have completed watching the season what happened. What was the season all about? Give me a summary and all the spoilers possible because I have no plans on watching it. And finally your thoughts on the season. Thank you!

I watched the first 3 seasons and I loved them but I started watching the first episode of season 4 and I got bored. I don't know if it was just because I wasn't in the mood, if the beginning was just slow, or if the season itself was actually bad but I just wanted to know other people's opinions before I started watching it again

Now that I've rewatched all 4 seasons and listened to the audiobooks, I can articulate exactly how this season spoiled You: it fundamentally broke the story's winning formula.

You's drama comes from the audience seeing what narrator Joe Goldberg doesn't: we see the disconnect between what other characters say/do and how Joe misinterprets these things. We feel the humor and dread when the conflict between reality and Joe's delusion results in chaos and tragedy... time and time again.

To pull off its dramatic reveal, season 4 had to switch to a psychological detective story, alienating the audience. We're no longer in on the joke, and many of us felt cheated by the narrative choices the show made to keep us in the dark.

(To be fair, this isn't totally unique to season 4; season 2 did mislead the audience when we're at first led to believe that Joe organically met Love - only to later find out he'd actually stalked her. This at the time was a cheap but relatively small storytelling choice, and using it to frame the entire 4th season was a bridge too far.)

Some Redditors argue that season 4's shift is good because it keeps the show from getting stale, but the writers seem to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Surely, there must be a way to expand the plot without sacrificing You's essential drama: the audience is caught between reality and Joe's delusion. Season 4 has traded this root conflict for cliches.

I understand that the writers want to transition Joe from the disturbing protagonist to the outright villain as they prepare to eventually end his story; fracturing his mind is probably the most expedient way to accomplish this shift, but that doesn't make it the best way.

Ultimately, I feel like You broke its defining storytelling device by alienating the audience, and I don't know what to even hope for in future seasons. Season 4 was a wild ride, but I wouldn't call it a fun one.

What is fun is the ongoing discussion this community is having, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed this new season but it didn't really feel like a continuation of the story set up by previous seasons. Season 4 kind of felt like a soft reboot more then the 4th part of the show. Compared to other seasons, I felt like I knew less about what I was watching compared to my first time watching previous seasons.

Really need a S4 recap no time to re-watch before the new season drops ,the only thing I remember is Joe coming back to new york. Thanks in advance!

I have loved all of the seasons of the show but something about 4 I so bad,the season is just so boring,I don’t see how part 2 can get any better

Season 3 should’ve been the last season! Not only they killed love( which was a huge supporting character), the whole Joe stalking someone and they finding out he’s a fucking dingbat is getting old. I was kinda hoping for season 3 his truths would be brought to light and he pays for his crimes.

I truly hope in season 4 Joe is caught.

Was I even watching the same show? Why do people like this season? Genuinely curious.

Season 1 and 2 were literal perfection which I've watched so many times. 3 was meh but it had its good moments with Love but 4 has to be one of the worst pieces of television I have ever seen.

Firstly the side characters...You has never been a show which offers up super in-depth side characters but the first few seasons always gave them some sort of personality and character arcs. Paco, Peach, Forty, Ellie, Cary, Sherry were all good characters which had some sort of meaning and place. I cannot think of a single one in 4 which wasn't completely void of any dimension. They weren't intriguing or even funny, they were just there, wasting screen time and felt like a slasher movie's character quota.

Secondly, the acting. Penn Badgley really has to carry so hard this season. Aside from Marianne, every other acting performance is forgettable and to be honest, at times cringe-worthy. The screenplay doesn't help. I was all for a change in setting after the first seasons but they failed England so hard. It was basically an American vision of what English culture was like and just threw in as many British stereotypes as they could. Also, the whole "rich people bad, capitalism bad" social commentary has got a bit stale now.

The plot twists felt so forced, underwhelming and the ending in particular was laughable, all done so they can milk out another season. How does Joe Goldberg go from being a serial killer on the run for years, with several characters still out there suspectful of him, now go to being some sort of celebrity starring in articles and interviews? Is "powerful family covered it all up" really the best they could come up with again? Maybe all these loose ends will be covered in season 5 but letting it end like that just seemed to spit on the first 3 seasons.

Perhaps I wasn't paying enough attention (forgive me season 4 was testing) but since when and why does Joe start losing his mind and hallucinating? Never at any point in the show prior do we see him being schizophrenic, yet as soon as the writers need a plot twist, all of a sudden he has a random English writer living in his head telling him to kill people...with 0 plot development into this state? He was always portrayed as being fully conscious and in control when he killed, be it accidental or for the "right reasons" but not this season apparently. Fine, show him growing more and more insane, but develop it through the writing. Its just lazy "and then" type screenplay.

Honestly, you can tell this series is no longer based on a book. I just really hope Season 5 can salvage something and go back to clean, smart writing. What surprised me though, was seeing how positive the reviews were for this season. Did I just miss something major?

Rant over. See you soon neighbour.

Hi all,

I just begrudgingly finished season 3.

I felt like the show started out really strong but then the entire plot kept repeating itself. Like all of season 3 was soooo predictable.

It seems like Joe has also never had any personality. All we know about him is he enjoys books, has childhood trauma, is charming, and is also a sociopath. Every love interest has had a solid backstory with their own passions and hobbies and character development.. but Joe never got any of that. He really seems like a totally plain guy that never shares anything about himself but women apparently still swoon over him for some reason.

Does ANY of this change in season 4? Or is it the exact same story with ‘new love interest that inevitably dies at the end?’ I would love more than anything for Joe to just get killed off at the end of season 5 when it comes out, but as the main character I highly doubt that will happen.